Update on this Matter

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jmsepe
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Update on this Matter

Postby jmsepe » March 10th 2018, 12:26 am

Update from the AGF Commissioner regarding the summer games. Two lessons here.

1. Don't ever ask what the AGF is doing, you will get reprimanded.
2. AGF is not open to discussion.

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Here is where everything began.

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Then thing went downhill.

It's clear that Kendall did not explain his decision.
It's clear that Kendall and Mike have presumptions that I want to host the Alliance Games in lieu of New Duveland when in fact that was not my intention.
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Re: Update on this Matter

Postby stanisolt » March 10th 2018, 3:43 am

I think you did well by posting on the forums to raise your concerns.

While I do agree with your concerns about what should be done with the delayed Alliance Summer Games, I do not think that attacking members that are responsible is a good choice of actions. Frankly, I do think that things should have been done differently on their part, and it is only fair that we are given another chance to bid for the 2018 games instead of merely having the 2017 games become the 2018 games somehow. We have discussed this, and the members responsible of the games are aware of this. Nevertheless, Kendall's reluctance to manage two games is reasonable.

Kendall and Michael, on your parts. A major issue has been presented and I would prefer to see a compromise to this situation, given that at least three members have expressed concern. It is not a "done" deal. It is only fair that another bidding is run for the host of the 2018 games when members are demanding it. It is entirely possible to run two games given we space it out and have another member run the second one, if Kendall feels that it would be too much work.

Regardless, I am rather appalled that this situation devolved into an exchange of personal attacks, and I feel both parties are responsible. Given that a compromise has and had already presented, this entire debacle looks to me rather meaningless and almost comical. There was no reason for it to get to this point.
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Re: Update on this Matter

Postby Charlie » March 10th 2018, 6:19 am

I appreciate you voicing your opinions on the matter JM, but posting it on the forums like this is pretty disrespectful and degrading, and if I’m not mistaken is actually in breach of the charter and could warrant action accordingly.

I’ve seen both sides, the situation could’ve ben dealt with better, yes, but it’s is up to the AGF to determine/release updates, and the fact that you’ve posted this, and screenshots is very disheartening.
There was no reason this needed to be posted on the forums, and could’ve easily remained in private.
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Re: Update on this Matter

Postby jmsepe » March 10th 2018, 7:40 am

Breach of what? This discussion occured on the public chat and this is a matter of public interest. If anything, Im more disappointed in you for failing to be neutral in this matter. It is now clear that any opposition to the current admin will be shot down.
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Re: Update on this Matter

Postby Michael » March 10th 2018, 11:25 am

Jmsepe, you are correct in saying that New Duveland won the rights to the 2017 Summer Games. For a number of reasons, including the busy schedules of all three involved members (Charlie, Kendall, and myself, Michael), the games have indeed been delayed. Charlie has now sent over the first of the venue pictures, so Kendall and I can start to prep the game - time permitting, of course, this should start in a matter of weeks.

You are also correct in thinking that there should be a 2018 Summer Games, along with potentially Winter Games at some point. However, the number of Games that occur, and when they do occur, is down to the decision of the AGF Commissioner, or Kendall. For instance, he and I decided that we would not hold a Winter Games at the start of 2018, as we did in 2017. This was firstly due to the fact that very few nations participated in the Winter Games - Balaton, Carolina, Freiga, Kingston and Boyce, Mikenstein, New Duveland, Poemia and Santa Catarina for reference; and only Mikenstein bid to host the Games (Freiga did also submit a late bid). Along with the delay to the Summer Games (and scheduling them for the Southern Hemisphere winter), we, therefore, concluded not to hold a Winter Games at this current time.

As for a second Alliance Games in 2018, I believe that could be a possibility. I will clarify with Kendall, but I personally view that if we have ND's games sometime in April/May, then we *could* hold another Summer Games in August/September time, with a host chosen in the same manner as before, with bidding opening soon. Another solution would be to host a Winter Games in November/December time. This would spread the various Games out more, and allow for even more time for preparation (bidding could also open fairly soon), and also allow for another Winter Games. I would be interested in hearing which solution all members would prefer - Stan is right, this is not a done deal.

As for submitting an official question, perhaps use the new solution that Ramon and I have implemented. While the Skype chat allows for an instant answer, as we saw yesterday, the discussion can escalate quickly and can lead to unnecessary personal comments (from all sides - I apologise if I said anything myself yesterday that caused insult or offence to you Jm, or any member). The solution Ramon and I have implemented allows for questions to be forwarded to the correct official (be it Kendall, or myself or Ramon, or any of the Directors), and allows for an official, forum response. It is still as transparent, and accessible, so there's no need to worry about that. So far, there has been limited uptake to this, so more questions are always welcomed. :)

Now the Alliance Administration is, of course, open to opposition. I would never claim to be exempt from that. But I do agree with Stan. This has escalated too far beyond the issue and dragging it into a public forum discussion isn't the right way to do it. Plus, I don't see how Charlie can be neutral. It's the Games that he won bidding rights to which are being discussed after all. ;)

Nevertheless, in summary, we can either have a Summer Games in Aug/Sep, or a Winter Games in Nov/Dec (That's my view) and there is the official method for submitting a question to the EC.

Hope this has helped to clear this up.
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jmsepe
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Re: Update on this Matter

Postby jmsepe » March 10th 2018, 12:01 pm

I accept this explanation.I apologize for which this matter has escalated to. My intention was neiher to degrade nor demean anyone. As far as AIN is concerned, we are all stakeholders of this organization. While this is merely a hobby or some in case a liesure, it cannot be denied that we are all responsible in keeping it alive. That being said, we should recognize that we are in some way accountable to what is happening in AIN. I myself have a lot of shortcomings and given my busy schedule, it is unlikely that I can be as active as before. I am willing to accept harsh criticism if I fail to fulfill my duty as Director of Economics. However, I am still accountable in informing the union of an update. We cannot just accept titles for their prestige and run away from responsibility when bad things happen. Being elected/appointed for a position means that the members have placed their trust in us and we ought to cherish that tust.

As I end, I apologize once more for those affected by my harsh words. I may come mean to other but my intentions are good. I wish we could communicate more often. We should throw away the prejudices we have against each other. I look forward in working with everyone in the long run. Let this chapter in AIN reminds us that we need to unite more, that we should let diversity be a strength and not a weakness.

I hope the current EC will deliver its promise of moving forward together.
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Re: Update on this Matter

Postby Nanami » March 10th 2018, 12:59 pm

Might be a little bit late but I'm glad this issue has been settled. As I mentioned before in Skype chatroom, try to be easily get offended or take any matters here too personal as I don't want to see another union split as it in 2011 (IIRC).

As for the option for current AIN Games, there are several possible option can be taken IMO:
- As what Michael said before, treat this game as the "Winter games of 2018" and the second one as the real Summer Games.
- Just mention that this game was actually happened in November-December 2017 in RP but just posted now (we can just say the news about the progress as old news as well)
- Cancel the second AIN Games (RP speaking just give to random nation but they cant hold it because of some reason :lol: ) . But yeah this might be not a fair option for some members (maybe including myself who want to bid for that game).

In my opinion, I would rather to choose the second option as it might the best we got around here.

If any of AGF members or host have trouble to held the game, I suppose some of us who have a plenty of times can help. Remember all here should for fun for everyone and not try to take anything personally (my bad jm for taking that "train war 2" too personally :rofl: )
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Re: Update on this Matter

Postby Agunter999 » March 10th 2018, 6:29 pm

I have little time or interest in arguing or even bothering to pay much attention to yet alone write but I feel as if I want to throw a couple of comments. JM did the right thing in bringing up this issue on the forums, the forums is an ideal place to talk about issues raised in casual conversation. Furthermore the current leaderships dealing of this deplorable. The cronyism here is very visible and this is not sustainable, disagreements need to be solved in consensus where possible in small groups and this has not been implemented. I understand the new administration is learning but they need to learn a little faster.
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Re: Update on this Matter

Postby stanisolt » March 10th 2018, 6:38 pm

Agunter999 wrote:I have little time or interest in arguing or even bothering to pay much attention to yet alone write but I feel as if I want to throw a couple of comments. JM did the right thing in bringing up this issue on the forums, the forums is an ideal place to talk about issues raised in casual conversation. Furthermore the current leaderships dealing of this deplorable. The cronyism here is very visible and this is not sustainable, disagreements need to be solved in consensus where possible in small groups and this has not been implemented. I understand the new administration is learning but they need to learn a little faster.


One would assume that cronyism is not the default in a new administration that would need to be unlearned.
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Re: Update on this Matter

Postby kendallhart808 » March 12th 2018, 9:52 pm

I am going to break my peace on this, not because I want to restart an argument, but because I feel that just as we tell children to stand up to their bully, I have a responsibility to stand up to this form of bullying. What everyone needs to understand is that what happened here is incredibly wrong. It is ok to disagree with someone, but it is incredibly classless, immature, and unjust to cyberbully and defame any member in the way that this has.

I don't appreciate what happened, or how it came about because I would never do the same thing anyone else in the alliance. This will always be a stain, not just between JM and I, but on the entire alliance. That being said, thank you for the apology and I forgive you for what you have done. However, the true test to this apology will not come now, but in two, three, or four weeks when there is another argument. When that argument comes about and you decide not to do this, that's when I will know that you really are sorry, and that you have truly changed. However, if you do it again, the apology is worth absolutely nothing because you truly didn't mean it.

I love this alliance, even though at times it has not loved me back. Things like this make me question why I am in an alliance where members are treated this way by other members, and it's not just with this post, and not just with JM. I try my best to do what I think is best for the alliance even though sometimes I may fail while doing so. Between the Winter Games, the G5/10, and now with this, I have found there is a serious lack of respect for people and their ideas. You can disagree with someone, but you do not have to try and force them to make it your own way. I have felt kind of pushed around because it seems like other people want to shape my own ideas. There is a huge lack of respect in this alliance and that is something that we all can go a long way to improve. In my opinion it's something that's tearing this union apart and I think it exacerbated in this incident. If we could at least come to respect each other, I think we would be much closer to unity than we are right now.

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